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Maulana Salman Hussaini Nadvi, Dean of the Faculty of Shariah at the renowned Nadwat ul-Ulama madrasa in Lucknow and member of the All-India Muslim Personal Law Board, is a senior Indian Muslim scholar. In this interview with Yoginder Sikand, he talks about various aspects related to madrasas in contemporary India.
Q: Today, madrasas in general suffer from a bad press. What do you think can be done to address this?
A: I think much of this owes to lack of knowledge of media persons of what madrasas are all about. Instead of dispelling wrong propaganda about madrasas, much of the media has fallen victim to it. I feel that to address this issue, media persons must visit madrasas themselves, observe their environment closely, interact with the ulema, teachers and students and then present realities. They must present the truth, as they see it.
Besides, there is need to promote more interaction between madrasas and schools, colleges and universities. There can be exchange of students, joint programmes, such as debates, seminars and also joint sport activities. In this way, madrasas and in these other educational institutions can come closer to each other. This will break down prejudices, many of which are based on the lack of familiarity. I would also like them to interact in the same way with institutions, teachers and Hindu students. For instance, Hindu teachers can deliver lectures in madrasas. Earlier the Nadwat ul-Ulama, students used to play football with students from the Lucknow University, located next door.
Q: But some conservative ulema might oppose such activities, claiming that they might ‘negatively’ impact on the religious commitment and identity of the students of the madrasas.
A: Some maulvis may indeed oppose this, but I think increased interaction and a free exchange of views will promote understanding.
Q: What efforts have you personally made in this regard?
A: I have tried to do this, in my own limited way, through the Jamiat Shabab il-Islam (‘The Union of Islamic Youth’), which I established in Lucknow in 1974. The intention was to help madrasa graduates interact with graduates of colleges and universities, both Muslims as well as Hindus, and to help reduce the gap between the two streams of education. We also wanted young madrasa graduates to become social workers, to take a more pro-active role in community affairs, and to engage with society, with Muslims as well as Hindus. And even today, when I travel to and speak at various madrasas and colleges, I repeat the same point. This will help counter misunderstandings. It will also work for the larger good of the country.
Q: What do you see as the reasons for the current wave of propaganda directed against madrasas, emanating from powerful quarters in the West and even in India?
A: There is no doubt that much of this has to do with the powerful Zionist lobby in America. Today, America is in the grasp of the pro-Zionist lobby, which controls its current administration, its politics, its economy and media. America has consistently backed Israeli aggression and has always vetoed any UN resolutions that are critical of Israel. This, and the greed for cheap West Asian oil, accounts largely for the anti-madrasa propaganda emanating from America. To add to this is the power of the right-wing pro-Zionist Christian lobby, which dreams of the imminent arrival of Jesus Christ, who they believe will establish a global Christian empire with his capital in Jerusalem.
Q: Would you say that this holds true in the case of India also?
A: Much the same pattern is being repeated in India, too. In India, many bomb blasts are actually engineered by certain agencies, who then wrongly blame Muslims for them, especially madrasa students and teachers. It seems that now American, Israeli and Indian agencies have come together and are working in tandem. The Hindutva right-wing has for long been engaged in such destructive acts directed against Muslims. So, any time there is a bomb blast Muslims are automatically blamed for it, even if there is no evidence for this, and they are arrested under draconian laws. In jail they are tortured and forced to sign fake confessions. In this climate of growing injustice, some might entertain feelings of revenge.
Q: Certain governments and influential policy-makers, who, while accusing madrasas of fanning ‘terrorism’, at the same time are now vehemently advocating ‘reforms’ in the madrasa curriculum. How do you look at this?
A: I don’t think their intention is pure. They talk about ‘reforming’ the madrasas even though they lack a proper understanding of the madrasa system. For such people to talk of madrasa ‘reforms’ is like forcing a healthy man to eat medicines! It can only make the man fall sick and have all sorts of unwanted side effects!
I would suggest that government conducts a dialogue with reliable ulema who enjoy the confidence of the community and only on the basis of that, and with their support, formulate its policies. If the government has any misgivings about the madrasas, it can sort them out with the ulema through dialogue. It should not impose any measures with a preconceived notion about the madrasas and without the cooperation of the ulema.
Q: In this context, how do you see recent suggestions emanating from official quarters for the setting up of a National Madrasa Board under government control?
A: I think imposing such a Board against the willingness of the ulema is not only wrong, it will also not work. The opposition of many ulema to this Board is because of what they have seen happening to many of the madrasas affiliated to government madrasa boards in states like Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. There, many such madrasas do not teach at all, and some of them even have fake names of teachers on their registers simply to pocket the money given by the boards. Many teachers in such madrasas have lost the passion for teaching as they are now assured of a steady income. It is promoting corruption and all other ills afflicting government institution.
Q: What role do you think the Muslim ulema can play in promoting inter-community dialogue in India?
A: Inter-community dialogue and understanding is an Islamic imperative at the same time as it is necessary for the welfare of the country as a whole. My appeal to Muslims is to strive to be models of Islamic virtue so that they can be a source of mercy (rahmat) to others through their actions. Deal kindly and gently with others, not aggressively. The earlier method of polemical debates (munazara) is of no use. It only further reinforces conflicts. It reflects an unhealthy urge to seek to impose one’s views on others, to denounce others. What is needed, instead, is dialogue, through which we should learn to understand each other and each other’s faiths and thereby clear our misunderstandings. In that way, people of different faiths can come closer to each other. The Qur’an says that God has made human beings from the same pair of primal parents and has divided them into different communities so that they can know or understand each other. Hindu, Muslim and Christian priest should visit each other’s places of worship.
Q: As a leading Islamic scholar, what do you feel about Muslim girls’ education and modern education for Muslim children? Some argue that the ulema are opposed to both.
A: This argument is wrong. Women should not be behind men in religious or modern education. They should acquire both sorts of education and share it with other women and with their own children. In matters of education there should be no difference between men and women. History itself shows that many Muslim women were better scholars than their male contemporaries.
As for modern education for Muslim children, we are all for it. We do not say that all Muslim children must enroll in full-time madrasas and spend five or six years training to become maulvis. Not at all. If in a locality there are just five or ten maulvis from whom people can get religious instruction it is enough. The other children can go to school and take up a range of professions, although every Muslim child should be taught the basics of his or her faith as well.
(Maulana Salman Hussaini Nadvi can be reached at Research Academy, Jamiatushababul Islam, Nadwa Road, Lucknow - 226018. U.P)
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